Timing is way out... no seeming adjustment

oowf · Aug 23rd, 2009, 10:48 AM

I'll double check the low jetting tomorrow Glider, but I am quite sure I changed that to a #46 last Spring. If it is a #46 already should I go higher? Your recommendations are the boss!

glider · Aug 23rd, 2009, 10:49 AM

No higher than a 46 is needed and usually if it is, that indicates an intake leak is present which requires more fuel to overcome the lean condition.

Also was the 46 you used a new one? sometimes they get reworked in the field and they aren't a 46 any more.

oowf · Aug 23rd, 2009, 10:57 AM

Ok... will check it tomorrow...

It's bed time over here... and it's been one long day... we are sending twelve of our children off to college this year... my how time flys!

G-Nite

glider · Aug 23rd, 2009, 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oowf

Ok... will check it tomorrow...

It's bed time over here... and it's been one long day... we are sending twelve of our children off to college this year... my how time flys!

G-Nite

12 children?

oowf · Aug 23rd, 2009, 11:09 AM

We have Sixty... in this location... another thirty at our second orphanage and we are in the process of opening our third right now and it will become active by October. We have already brought in fifteen there.... have identified over 700.... isn't that amazing!

The twelve are ones that have grown up in our Gongyi orphanage (where we live) and are now college age.

glider · Aug 23rd, 2009, 11:11 AM

My hat's off to you for doing such a great job for the younger generation.

oowf · Aug 25th, 2009, 07:14 PM

Good morning everyone...

Yesterday I got the ol lady running good again... but I need your input on what happened.

As I stated earlier, I never could find the timing marks... so after taking the carb apart and checking the jetting as recommended (I do have #46 and #185 jets) I got back into the timing. Still could not find the marks...

So I had my maintenance man help me and as he watched through the site glass I removed both sensor plate studs so I could rotate the sensor plate beyond the adjustment notches for the two studs. I held pressure against the plate with one screwdriver while advancing the plate beyond the normal allowable adjustment and after about 1 1/2 marks beyond the limit we could see and center the timing mark.

I cut the adjustment grooves on the plate (where the studs go through) longer to allow this adjustment and the bike is running the best since I have had it...

However, knowing I am advanced more than what the equipment would normally allow I wanted to run this by you and see if you have ever heard of this before. Keeping in mind this ride was purchased used so one really doesn't know what went on before and keeping in mind I can see the timing mark now... do you see a problem with what I did?

I am going to send for a new sensor plate and change it out once it gets here.

Anyone have any comments or suggestions in this regard?

Cheers!

glider · Aug 25th, 2009, 07:20 PM

Keep in mind that the idle speed will effect the timing marks showing up in the hole. If the speed is too high the marks will move to another position so first set the idle speed to specs and see if you can locate the marks then.
As far as being too advanced and IF you have the wrong plate in there for some reason, when you hit the start button, if there is too much advanced timing, you'll know it. The engine will stall on cranking and kick back, don't try it again but instead retard the timing before the ring gear gets chewed up.
No kick back/starter stall or pinging, you must be close to the right timing.

TQuentin1 · Aug 25th, 2009, 08:22 PM

Like Glider says above, you have to have the the rpms right, and the VOES must be working.

Remind me if you have had the cam chest apart (i.e., replacing inner cam shaft bearings, or changing cams, tensioners, etc.)

TQ

oowf · Aug 25th, 2009, 08:56 PM

Glider and TQ....

The bike starts with almost no hesitation. What I mean is I push in on the starter and almost instantly she is running. It doesn't even seem to turn over more than once. So far not once has it kicked back.

As far as any work on the cam shaft bearings... None by me but again, it was used when purchased.

The only tensioning thing I have worked with is the main drive chain and that was only to adjust it to 3/4 inch.

Also, the idle speed during our check for timing was at 1,100 RPM. The book called for between 1,000 and 1,500.

Based on your information it seems it was done right but of course the fact that I had to "cheat" the plate to get it to this point does leave me with this nagging concern in the pit of my brain! <smile>

Thanks so much for you help in all of this.

Cheers!

Aug 23rd, 2009, 10:48 AM	#11
oowf Contributor$ Ride: 1998 FXSTS Softail Springer Join Date: Jul 1st, 2008 Location: Gongyi, China (originally Texas) Posts: 61 My Mood:	Re: Timing is way out... no seeming adjustment I'll double check the low jetting tomorrow Glider, but I am quite sure I changed that to a #46 last Spring. If it is a #46 already should I go higher? Your recommendations are the boss! __________________ The Oowf Life is not about waiting for the storm to pass.... It's about learning to dance in the rain!

Aug 23rd, 2009, 10:49 AM	#12
glider Community Liaison Ride: 07 Road King Classic Join Date: Jun 21st, 2007 Posts: 20,468 My Mood:	Re: Timing is way out... no seeming adjustment No higher than a 46 is needed and usually if it is, that indicates an intake leak is present which requires more fuel to overcome the lean condition. Also was the 46 you used a new one? sometimes they get reworked in the field and they aren't a 46 any more. __________________ Psssst! Please stop by the "self help section" for maintenance tips, diagnostic codes and much more. click me!>>Self Help Information and Tips<< click me!

Aug 23rd, 2009, 10:57 AM	#13
oowf Contributor$ Ride: 1998 FXSTS Softail Springer Join Date: Jul 1st, 2008 Location: Gongyi, China (originally Texas) Posts: 61 My Mood:	Re: Timing is way out... no seeming adjustment Ok... will check it tomorrow... It's bed time over here... and it's been one long day... we are sending twelve of our children off to college this year... my how time flys! G-Nite __________________ The Oowf Life is not about waiting for the storm to pass.... It's about learning to dance in the rain!

Aug 23rd, 2009, 11:09 AM	#15
oowf Contributor$ Ride: 1998 FXSTS Softail Springer Join Date: Jul 1st, 2008 Location: Gongyi, China (originally Texas) Posts: 61 My Mood:	Re: Timing is way out... no seeming adjustment We have Sixty... in this location... another thirty at our second orphanage and we are in the process of opening our third right now and it will become active by October. We have already brought in fifteen there.... have identified over 700.... isn't that amazing! The twelve are ones that have grown up in our Gongyi orphanage (where we live) and are now college age. __________________ The Oowf Life is not about waiting for the storm to pass.... It's about learning to dance in the rain!

Aug 23rd, 2009, 11:11 AM	#16
glider Community Liaison Ride: 07 Road King Classic Join Date: Jun 21st, 2007 Posts: 20,468 My Mood:	Re: Timing is way out... no seeming adjustment My hat's off to you for doing such a great job for the younger generation. __________________ Psssst! Please stop by the "self help section" for maintenance tips, diagnostic codes and much more. click me!>>Self Help Information and Tips<< click me!

Aug 25th, 2009, 07:14 PM	#17
oowf Contributor$ Ride: 1998 FXSTS Softail Springer Join Date: Jul 1st, 2008 Location: Gongyi, China (originally Texas) Posts: 61 My Mood:	Re: Timing is way out... no seeming adjustment Good morning everyone... Yesterday I got the ol lady running good again... but I need your input on what happened. As I stated earlier, I never could find the timing marks... so after taking the carb apart and checking the jetting as recommended (I do have #46 and #185 jets) I got back into the timing. Still could not find the marks... So I had my maintenance man help me and as he watched through the site glass I removed both sensor plate studs so I could rotate the sensor plate beyond the adjustment notches for the two studs. I held pressure against the plate with one screwdriver while advancing the plate beyond the normal allowable adjustment and after about 1 1/2 marks beyond the limit we could see and center the timing mark. I cut the adjustment grooves on the plate (where the studs go through) longer to allow this adjustment and the bike is running the best since I have had it... However, knowing I am advanced more than what the equipment would normally allow I wanted to run this by you and see if you have ever heard of this before. Keeping in mind this ride was purchased used so one really doesn't know what went on before and keeping in mind I can see the timing mark now... do you see a problem with what I did? I am going to send for a new sensor plate and change it out once it gets here. Anyone have any comments or suggestions in this regard? Cheers! __________________ The Oowf Life is not about waiting for the storm to pass.... It's about learning to dance in the rain! Last edited by oowf; Aug 25th, 2009 at 07:15 PM. Reason: Spelling

Aug 25th, 2009, 07:20 PM	#18
glider Community Liaison Ride: 07 Road King Classic Join Date: Jun 21st, 2007 Posts: 20,468 My Mood:	Re: Timing is way out... no seeming adjustment Keep in mind that the idle speed will effect the timing marks showing up in the hole. If the speed is too high the marks will move to another position so first set the idle speed to specs and see if you can locate the marks then. As far as being too advanced and IF you have the wrong plate in there for some reason, when you hit the start button, if there is too much advanced timing, you'll know it. The engine will stall on cranking and kick back, don't try it again but instead retard the timing before the ring gear gets chewed up. No kick back/starter stall or pinging, you must be close to the right timing. __________________ Psssst! Please stop by the "self help section" for maintenance tips, diagnostic codes and much more. click me!>>Self Help Information and Tips<< click me!

Aug 25th, 2009, 08:22 PM	#19
TQuentin1 Moderators Ride: '03 FLHTCUI (Ultra Classic) Join Date: Apr 4th, 2008 Location: Sugar Land, TX Posts: 1,936	Re: Timing is way out... no seeming adjustment Like Glider says above, you have to have the the rpms right, and the VOES must be working. Remind me if you have had the cam chest apart (i.e., replacing inner cam shaft bearings, or changing cams, tensioners, etc.) TQ __________________ Please stop by the "self help section" for maintenance tips, diagnostic codes and much more. >>Self Help Information and Tips<< click me!

Aug 25th, 2009, 08:56 PM	#20
oowf Contributor$ Ride: 1998 FXSTS Softail Springer Join Date: Jul 1st, 2008 Location: Gongyi, China (originally Texas) Posts: 61 My Mood:	Re: Timing is way out... no seeming adjustment Glider and TQ.... The bike starts with almost no hesitation. What I mean is I push in on the starter and almost instantly she is running. It doesn't even seem to turn over more than once. So far not once has it kicked back. As far as any work on the cam shaft bearings... None by me but again, it was used when purchased. The only tensioning thing I have worked with is the main drive chain and that was only to adjust it to 3/4 inch. Also, the idle speed during our check for timing was at 1,100 RPM. The book called for between 1,000 and 1,500. Based on your information it seems it was done right but of course the fact that I had to "cheat" the plate to get it to this point does leave me with this nagging concern in the pit of my brain! <smile> Thanks so much for you help in all of this. Cheers! __________________ The Oowf Life is not about waiting for the storm to pass.... It's about learning to dance in the rain!

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Timing is way out... no seeming adjustment

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