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Old 12-17-2007, 04:36 PM     #21 (permalink)
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Re: Gun Control

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Originally Posted by Fearless1 View Post
It was copied and pasted from another site.
What I actually mean't was, which organisation? If it was the gun lobby, or the shooters party here, don't believe a word of what you read. I always state the source of "statistics", otherwise any nutcase from down here can claim anything!!
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Old 12-17-2007, 09:19 PM     #22 (permalink)
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Re: Gun Control

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Originally Posted by DarkKnight View Post
One at a time nothing... short bursts gentlemen... short bursts...
Fire discipline. Short, well-aimed three round bursts. No unnecessarily wasted ammo or melted/shot-out barrels. Unless you are about to be overrun in which case, let 'em have it!!
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Old 12-18-2007, 01:44 AM     #23 (permalink)
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Re: Gun Control

"If you create a gun-free zone, you're liable for any harm it causes."

This may be the most important pro-rights gun bill to come down in many years.

A version of the bill was first introduced in Arizona (HB2456 in 2002) by Rep. Randy Graf (R-6th), with considerable support (12 sponsors!).

In 2003, Rep. Graf re-introduced it in Arizona (HB 2320). The state of Georgia joined the effort to enact this important new legislation with HB31, introduced by Rep. Bobby Franklin (R-17th). At least two other states actively considered the bill.

The Gun-Free-Zone Liability Act has excellent value even if it isn't enacted in its first years -- it is a just and common-sense bill that would help protect the public. Resisting its reasonable provisions requires taking the moral low ground -- that you have no right to defend yourself. A lot of very bad gun bills are planned, so it's critical to balance that with bills as positive as this one. Ask your legislators to at least look at the bill and support it. Basically, "If you create a gun-free zone, you're liable for any harm it causes."

Originally introduced in Arizona as The Defenseless Victim Act of 2002, this bill recognizes that gun-free zones, recklessly made and typically with no alternative security provided, are known to be extremely dangerous.

We have seen this (when the bill was first introduced) in the Wakefield , Mass. , slayings, the Luby's Massacre, and even the hijacked airliners on Sept. 11, where pilots and passengers were defenseless, in the false name of security. Congress responded to that with the "Arm The Pilots" law.

The death toll from gun-free zones continues to mount, with the 2007 Virginia Tech slaughter of helpless students and faculty, and at a Christmastime massacre that year in an Omaha shopping mall. The mall had "no guns allowed" signs to keep out FBI-certified citizens with CCW permits. The murderer, as in all such cases, disobeyed the signs. The news media continues to suppress stories where armed individuals stop such mayhem. See for example, The Bias Against Guns, by John Lott, for numerous egregious examples. You can also read this eloquent gun-bias editorial online.

The Gun-Free-Zone Liability Act basically says that, in public places, if you create a dangerous gun-free zone, you're liable for any harm it causes. There is no cost or budget item associated with enacting this bill.

The idea that gun-free zones are safe is fraudulent.

It is a mythology perpetrated by anti-rights activists who can often be recognized by their beliefs that:
1 - self defense should be illegal,
2 - guns should be confiscated,
3 - no one but "authorities" should have guns,
4 - government can take care of you better than you can.

The anti-self-defense lobby would tell you to rely upon the police for your safety, but they always omit the inconvenient facts that:
1 - police have no legal duty to protect you;
2 - they routinely respond only after an event to pick up the pieces;
3 - when seconds count, the police are just minutes away.

In the tragic homicides above and countless others you see on TV, the police don't draw their guns, they draw chalk lines when you're gone.*

A person who would deny your right or ability to self defense is as violent and wrong as the person who assaults you.

Acting in self defense against a criminal assault is legally guaranteed in all 50 states and federally, as it should be. It is as old as the first written laws of civilization. Denying the fundamental right to self preservation is unjust, immoral, dangerous and should not be tolerated.

The notion that gun-free zones are safe is fraud perpetrated on the public:

a) Only innocent victims like you and me are affected. Armed criminals ignore no-guns signs and could care less -- they're laughing at you.

b) No alternate form of security is provided. You are knowingly and recklessly made vulnerable, while property management accepts no responsibility for your safety or their negligent behavior. The bill addresses only blatantly anti-gun-rights actions that would callously disarm you and ignore your plight.

c) Despite bias in news coverage and the fear-mongering left, privately held firearms have been repeatedly shown to deter and prevent crime in one scholarly study after another (detailed at great length in Armed, by Kleck and Kates). Since the nation's inception we have known and embraced the freedom-giving truth that guns protect the innocent, and that this is good.

d) Denial of your civil rights under color of law is a federal offense under 18 USC §241 and 18 USC § 242: The Gist: Anyone who, under color of any law, statute, ordinance, custom or regulation, willfully deprives any person of any rights, privileges, or immunities secured or protected by the Constitution or laws of the United States, shall be fined, or imprisoned for up to one year, or both.

If bodily injury results, or if the violation includes the use or attempted or threatened use of a dangerous weapon, explosive or fire, the prison term rises to up to ten years. If death results, or if such acts include kidnapping, attempted kidnapping, aggravated sexual assault, attempted aggravated sexual assault, or an attempt to kill, the violator may be fined, imprisoned for any term of years up to life, or put to death.

Initial reactions to the Gun-Free-Zone Liability Act have been highly supportive by knowledgeable people in the gun-rights movement. It shows all the signs of becoming a major national rallying point. This could turn into one of the key gun issues of the decade (literally, the right to bear arms), especially if terrorist attacks continue and defenseless innocent victims are slaughtered.

The public-opinion value alone, forcing the other side to support helplessness and victimization, are worth the effort. Now is a good time to bring this issue into the spotlight.

The bill was first introduced as HB2456, sponsored by a dozen representatives, in the 45th session in Arizona (2002). The legislators say it gives them something to sink their teeth into. Give your legislators something this good -- ask them to introduce the Gun-Free-Zone Liability Act in your state, for all the right reasons.

Some additional observations appear after the following bill text.

This is good law, supportive of our fundamental rights, a deterrent to criminals who would perpetrate attacks, a winner in the publicity battle over gun rights, and it places responsibility squarely on those who would cause harm by their direct actions.

It deserves to be enacted.

Please give it your support.

Ask your representatives to introduce and vote for the Gun-Free-Zone Liability Act.

Sincerely,
Alan Korwin, Author
Gun Laws of America
Scottsdale, AZ
602-996-4020
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Old 12-18-2007, 05:00 AM     #24 (permalink)
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Re: Gun Control

Here in AZ it is legal to carry without a permit as long as the weapon is in full view a couple restaurants we use to go to put up signs saying no guns allowed so we no longer go to them, there loss of business! If I leave the house i have my 45 on my hip and I have never had a cop give me a hard time ever, one asked me if I had a permit and I came back at him that it was in plain view and that was the end of the subject. I get some wierd looks from people at times due to carrying my gun but most of them are snowbirds from up north that are not use to the laws here in this state. With the illegals we have in this state i wouldn't leave home without it they disregard our laws totally but it is hard for even them to disregard my 45! READY, WILLING, and ABLE!
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Old 12-18-2007, 07:04 AM     #25 (permalink)
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Re: Gun Control

you know there are times in this country i wish we could carry guns legally would stop an awful lot of problems
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Old 12-18-2007, 10:43 PM     #26 (permalink)
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Re: Gun Control

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Originally Posted by Hobbit View Post
you know there are times in this country i wish we could carry guns legally would stop an awful lot of problems
just out of curiosity, what is the law over there? can you even own guns?
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Old 12-19-2007, 05:03 AM     #27 (permalink)
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Re: Gun Control

we can if we can prove its use is for hunting only and it can only be a shot gun - it has to be licenced and it has to be stored securely in a vault inspected by our local police force. or at least it did not sure now on the law i think we are not allowed them period
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Old 12-20-2007, 11:12 PM     #28 (permalink)
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Re: Gun Control

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Originally Posted by T wrecks View Post
What I actually mean't was, which organisation? If it was the gun lobby, or the shooters party here, don't believe a word of what you read. I always state the source of "statistics", otherwise any nutcase from down here can claim anything!!
I am with you T wrecks, I want to know who created the statistics as stats are so easily manipulated.
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Old 12-21-2007, 12:58 AM     #29 (permalink)
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Re: Gun Control

Gun Control? What they said.......steady aim, steady-rapid bursts!

I rely on the police to come pick them up after I've protected my family and property! Not only do I enjoy shooting, and use guns for protection......but I'm seriously planning to start entering shooting competitions.

States are abolishing the death penalty because it's considered cruel and inhumane. What about the victims? Was their death not cruel and inhumane? And while they are abolishing the death penalty, crime stats continue to rise. I don't get in my vehicle without locking the doors and do the same at home. And I live out in the country!!
It shouldn't be this way!

The government needs to stay out of my business. I'm quite capable of taking care of my own!!

Gun control? I am in total control of my guns at all times.

<stepping off soap box>
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Old 12-21-2007, 09:56 AM     #30 (permalink)
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Re: Gun Control

It is a shame rebelbikergal, but the lawyers must make alot of money finding and or creating loop holes in the system. It is too bad that people who spend there lives obeying the law and being in general a could person can have everything taken away by some PUNK that has no respect for anything. Instead of making more Gun laws keep people in prison that belong in prison and the one that deserve to die should die!!!!!!!!
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