Harley Davidson needs a loan

drake

I speak as a person who worked in a union steel mill for 19 years. a union is only as strong as it's members. when downsizing came along, our union sold us out to save the jobs of our so called union officers' jobs. several hundred union jobs were eliminated. what did our remaining union "brothers" do? worked all the overtime they could get and never gave the people who the company eliminated a second thought. If the big 3 want bailout monies, let them first rid themselves of the big brass at the top who made all the wrong decisions, then ask for help.

mqhybrid

glidder u hit the nail on the head.

smitty901

Getting sold out by youe so called leaders did you expect anything different.
To qoute Bill Clinton " character does not count".
Suppoted and and still loved by union leaders he was the one that killed unions on His home state. HMMM figure that out.
Why do we make scape goats of good union worker that get only a small peace of the pie. I know there are some losers in the union I deal with a few all the time but thats not all of them.
I work for a corp that has 15,000 employees we have to give up wages to get basic health care when the total cost to provide it to all employess is less than the bonuses and extras paid CEO and Vp's. That was on top of thier big pay checks. The company has turned a profit every years sence 1852, yet every contract they get a deal becasue they are going broke.
We weere just told our dues are going up again we have to make up for all the money the union spent to get The big O elected. But we are are also being told not to expect any thing from our contact. Is that not why theyt said we had to vote for The o. if we did not we "would not get anything on our contact"
Union sells us out to Dem party they give them a lot of money the dem party slides it back under the table to union leaders been going on for a long time .
We must take charge we do that with were and when we spend our money.
We need a thead to some what US made cars and Motorcycles cost in all the countries that ship there stuff here that would be a eye opener
Fair trade may be a good idea but it needs to be fair seems US always comes up on the short end.

__________________
The Infantry leads the way

drake

You're right smitty. I guess what was so unfair was that the union let the company eliminate jobs but when it came to seniority they let us guys go with 10 to 15 years seniority more than the younger guys and the union looked the other way. when I talk to some of the younger guys who did not lose their jobs, they brag about all the overtime they get and all the money they're bringing home.

glider

What it all comes down to is the fat cats get fatter and the little guy gets it on the chin as usual.

Make a product that would make us proud to buy and we'll buy it, but don't tell us we have to buy American to support the slobs that make inferior products just because it's an American product. That just doesn't cut it any more , at least not where I come from.

I feel the unions are mostly responsible for the problems as stated above in my other post. Unions in themselves aren't a bad deal, it's the fat cats running them that are the problem. Trips to foreign countries, vacations on the union money and all for what? There's really nothing going on in Hawaii that will benefit my union so why do they have to go there, just because they can is the answer. We all pay for those perks too from our pay checks in the forum of union dues. Then there are those union leaders that say it's part of the job......well show me where it says that is what I say.


And then there are those that support unions too.

__________________
Psssst!
Please stop by the "self help section" for maintenance tips, diagnostic codes and much more.
click me!>>Self Help Information and Tips<< click me!

smitty901

Agree with some of it except we will not buy the good quialty products we will by the cheap one then try to buy it even cheaper if we can.
We won't shop at the local machine shop for parts we go to ebay.
Then we want the local shop to install them a discount. Then be rase heck because he does not have a part we need right now instock
We all want to be paid top dollar but we darn sure do not want to pay anyone else.
I posted this before Had a union offical stop in beating everyone on how Bush shipped your jobs over sea you must vote for The O.
He was wearing interstate leathers and riding a Suziki.
Interstate is sold in non union stores made in China but it did have a flag one it
My last word on the subject we shipped our jobs out we bought the products
I will drive my GM and ride my HD as long as I can, I will at all times do my best to by American products.

__________________
The Infantry leads the way

Gary12850

I went through the same thing in the construction trade...after 22 years the steel mills went under as did the maintenance contracts, filled the hall & me not being of the "trade social society" ended up at Home Depot for less than half. that was in 2001, since I have heard my pension (due in 3 years) will be cut in half...Unions were once a good thing, they supported the workers, it seems now greed is the motivating force...

somebody come and get this soap box away from me...

SledDog

Smitty, no offense, but how many times are you going to post this very same post?? What does motorcycle manufacturing info have to do with bail-out loans to the big 3, or if HD needed a loan?

How about posting the reference for your figures. I have asked you to do this when you posted this info before. But you never did. I can't believe that Harley produces less motorcycles than all other manufactures, but yet has the most registrations.

Also why do you have to bash other manufactures? Do you really think Harley is an all American motorcycle? You may want to see just how much of the parts are produced outside of the USA. That's the same for all Big 3 manufactured cars. That ALL have parts that are non US.

As for you GM mileage claim, you need to read this from cars.com

Best Gas Mileage by Vehicle Class - Cars.com

Best Gas Mileage for Cars, Trucks and SUVs
Each class includes the 2008 automatic-transmission vehicles with the best gas mileage estimates in that category.

Class Leaders City MPG Highway MPG
Compact Cars (Range: 11-37; Avg.: 21/28)
Toyota Yaris 29 35
Honda Fit 27 34

Midsize Cars (Range: 9-33; Avg.: 18/26)
Hyundai Elantra 25 33
Pontiac Vibe 25 31
Toyota Matrix 25 31

Full-Size Cars (Range: 10-31; Avg.: 15/23)
Hyundai Sonata 21 30
Toyota Avalon 19 28

Luxury Cars (Range: 9-32; Avg.: 15/23)
Mercedes-Benz E-Class (diesel) 23 32
Audi A4* 21 30

Sports Cars (Range: 9-31; Avg.: 16/23)
Audi TT* 22 29
Volkswagen GTI* 22 29
SUVs (Range: 12-28; Avg.: 15/21)
Jeep Compass (2WD) 23 27
Jeep Patriot (2WD) 23 27

Pickup Trucks (Range: 12-26; Avg.: 15/20)
Toyota Tacoma (2WD) 19 25
Ford Ranger (2WD) 19 24
Mazda B2300 (2WD) 19 24

Minivans (Range: 15-28; Avg.: 17/24)
Mazda Mazda5 21 27
Kia Rondo 19 26

So after reading those figures, you can see that GM has only ONE vehicle in that list. And by the way, the Vibe is actually a .... wait for it.... A TOYOTA MATRIX!! So your claim is false.

Smitty, I'm sure you're a great human being, but why do you insist on posting info that has no basis or reference? Also, could I ask one more thing of you? Could you please slow down when you type... Your posts, sometimes, are very hard to read...

__________________
77 FXE "Shaker", 94 FLHR "Primitive Man", 96 FXD "Miss Low"
My Newest "Harley", MV Agusta F4 1000 S (05), 2009 Ducati Streetfighter S
Track Day Bike: 2000 Ducati 996 SPS

DDogg

Boy did I open up a can of worms. I knew I'd get all points of view. Living in the middle of all this is bad news (Detroit). If the auto companies do go down, we are going to have massive unemployment. That's my main concern. I agree the big 3 got themselves into this mess by making a sub par product at the highest wages given. But the government is going to be shelling out a lot more than 25 billion if 250000 people aren't working. It's a catch 22. We as Americans are losing out to Foreign makes. We should stand by our work force and strive to make better products at lower wages. Let's be honest, we all try to make as much as we can. You would want a job to pay 30 bucks an hour verus 20 if you could land that job. Once making the 30, you would not want to take 20. But it's come down to take it or leave it. Here in the Suburbs of Detroit, people are losing their houses right and left. It's the 3 to 4 hundred thousand dollar homes. It's the homes bought with all the overtime money these autoworkers made when things were good. It's a bad scene getting worse.

biglew55

Just remember bancruptcy doesn't always mean liquidation. It could also mean restructuring. I'm definatley more alligned with Glider on this in that they could use a kick in the pants to maybe jar their heads loose from it's hiding place, but it doesn't mean that they will stop making cars. And it doesn't mean that everyone associated with the auto industry will be unemployed. It just means things would change. For the better, who knows. On the other hand, they could file for bancrupcy and walk away from the industry. That seems more likely? They're all crying wolf because they smell someone handing out money. WWYD?

__________________
"Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die tomorrow." - James Dean
Ride it hard and ride it far!