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P0132/P0152 and mileage decrease

Engine, Fuel and Exhaust

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Old Nov 24th, 2011, 08:18 PM     #1
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Question P0132/P0152 and mileage decrease

I recently had some work done to my '07 Dyna. The mid shifter splines gave out and I had the mids replaced with forward controls, plus a checkout as to why the primary chain was loose. Both went smoothly, and while being open I had the painted/polished covers replaced with the chrome option.

Well, the Indy found the stock cam shaft lobes showing wear when he pulled the cam cover and we agreed to replace the cams. He installed S & S 510 cams with new bearings, lifters, and chain tensioners. These cams do not need any engine modifications, per the S & S specification sheet, as they are about one notch up from stock. He also pulled the heads and inspected, all looked good. I had told him I intend to keep the bike for another four years, thus the checkout.

Afterwards the bike ran well, a bit louder with stronger pull on acceleration and with power higher in the band. No complaints there. But, fueling up after the first run of 125 miles the mpg was 41.5, down from the usual and expected 45-48. The second, about 140 miles, the mpg was 36.5,

Checked over the bike, and all seems correct and normal. Plugs were replaced with Autolite but I swapped back the HDs after the first ride, all fluids and filters are new and of the recommended types. Total bike miles are 53,650 and it is 50 months old. Compression ratio was 185/180 and 190/180 in each of the past two years.

There is a slight smell of something, possibly a burnt smell, the plugs are light gray and there are no deposits in the exhaust tips. No raw gas in the oil.

Ran the DTC codes and P0132 (Engine running rich) and P0152 (Rear O2 sensor high (rich)) showed up. No other errors , no engine light coming on, or indictions of problems. I cleared the codes, ran 12 miles on surface streets and checked, the codes were back. Cleared them and ran nine freeway miles home. Checked, and the codes were again back. The service manual didn't have any troubleshooting info.

Now what? The only mechanical change was the cams and while I expected a mileage hit, I did not expect one this large. So, is this:

1. Our 'new normal'? With a ~20% mpg reduction?
2. Bad O2 sensors? But I doubt both would go bad at the same time.
3. Bad ECM? But how and why? No signs of the sensors being unplugged or the electrical caddies being removed (read 'dusty').
4. Possible error in the cam install, such as being one sprocket off? But wouldn't that show up in rough running, if it ran at all?
5. Time for a fueler of some sort, but don't they add fuel (with the exception of the Dobeck 3.5)?
6. Time to go with a Stage 1 to take advantage of the increased fuel? But that wouldn't solve the mileage issue.
7. Install a new set of stock cams?

Appreciate thoughts and help. I'm taking a longish ride Friday (~200 miles) so will see how it goes.

As an aside, two months ago we took a 4,100+ mile ride from Phoenix up to Seattle via Utah and Idaho, then down the PCH and home. Averaged right around 50 mpg.
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Old Nov 24th, 2011, 08:51 PM     #2
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Re: P0132/P0152 and mileage decrease

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and P0152 (Rear O2 sensor high (rich)) showed up
I would solve the issue with this before going any further. I could be a bad 02 sensor or even the wiring. This would account for lower MPG in that it is running richer than normal. As far as the cam, you should open up the intake with the stage 1 to take advantage of the cam as well as the mufflers too. Restricting either of the two will not let the cam do it's job as good.
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Old Nov 24th, 2011, 09:07 PM     #3
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Re: P0132/P0152 and mileage decrease

Thanks, Glider. Will check with the indy first thing on Monday when he reopens.
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Old Nov 24th, 2011, 09:28 PM     #4
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Re: P0132/P0152 and mileage decrease

Since both cylinders are rich I would also look at the cylinder temp sensor. The ECM might not be coming out of warm up "choke" mode. That would peg both sensors. A temp sensor code will only be thrown if open or dead shorted & not for accuracy.
Also check the connector for the map sensor since you had the heads off.
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Old Feb 9th, 2012, 09:56 AM     #5
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Re: P0132/P0152 and mileage decrease

Still having issues here. The suggestions above are all checked and seem OK, but I will be talking with a different dealer today. The last one wanted to install a SERT and tune on a dyno as part of the diagnostics, with a $855 quote. We have parted ways.

'07 Dyna, stock other than a newly installed S&S 510 cams, lifters, bearings, and tensioners, fuel filter and pressure regulator, new 02 sensors, new exhaust gaskets. 54k miles, 185 lbs ccompression each cylinder before and after the cam change, 49+ mpg on trips (see my postings). Plugs and pipes look normal.

Issue? Diagnostic error codes P0132, P0152, and "end", no change from normal on the check engine light nor any error code in the digital window. These two codes mean running rich; I can clear them but since the "end" showed up, they cannot be cleared. Before I head off to the dealer, any thoughts as to what "end" in this context means? The P0132 comes up almost always but the P0152 is infrequent. Mileage dropped, 44.5 highway and mid 30s in town; just rode from Tempe to Globe (AZ) and back, burned 3.90 gal in 176 miles.

Also, will a TFI cure the rich running, or is does there seem to be an inherent problem here which a TFI would only wallpaper over? Leaning towards a Dobeck unit and possibly a stage 1 intake, if necessary. Not overly interested in exhaust, too noisy for me and the neighborhood.

Alternatively, with the 510 being bolt-in and the specs very similar to the SE 204, are these codes the normal result of this cam install? And, then would a TFI is the normal next step?. Am I being paranoid?

As an aside for another thread, the tensioners were replaced at no charge as the indy had an extra set on the shelf. The existing ones were grooved from the chain edges but did not show any wear down the centers. These are the hydraulic tensioners, 54k miles and either Spectro semi-synthetic or Mobil 1 for V-Twins since new, with one Syn3 change on the road back around 15k miles. Also, the stock cam lobes were worn through the surface hardening and were showing a copper color plus some fine wear lines, thus the cam change.

Thank you for any help.

Bill
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Old Feb 9th, 2012, 09:59 AM     #6
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Re: P0132/P0152 and mileage decrease

use the SERT and its sofware to clear the codes ( they could well be historic) - if you have the cables and program installed on your PC / Laptop - ignore that i read it properly instead of skimming you dont have the SERT

you have only installed the cams no pipes or intake to the motor with no timing or fuelling alterations?

can the dealer not clear the codes for you and see if they return?
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Old Feb 9th, 2012, 10:08 AM     #7
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Re: P0132/P0152 and mileage decrease

If I understand what I read SilverFoXD does not the SERT. The TFI will give you better performance and should cure the problems your having. As for your gas milage once you have installed the TFI that will depend on your right wrist.
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Old Feb 9th, 2012, 10:15 AM     #8
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Re: P0132/P0152 and mileage decrease

if its running rich adding any fueller other than the sophiscated ones that area able to subtract fuel as well will only compound a rich running issue, if it was lean then yes a TFI over the SERT every day as the TFI does exactly whats needed adds fuel - now the Gen 4 TFIs with the AFR gauge and sensors may be able to tell you were you are running rich or lean and enable you to remove and add fuel so the more sophisticated TFI yes but without knowing were your rich condition is (you need a rolling road or AFR guage) blitthly adding fuel wont fix the issue
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Old Feb 9th, 2012, 10:52 AM     #9
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Re: P0132/P0152 and mileage decrease

Lucky 15 I have read and reread the post and I do not see where the original poater has added the SERT. I would assume that when the cam swap was done that the ECM was remapped and this could be the issue with the rich running condition, adding a Dobeck feuler will correct this.
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Old Feb 9th, 2012, 10:58 AM     #10
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Re: P0132/P0152 and mileage decrease

HDDon if you read my post i state i reread and see he does not have the SERT but has a STOCK system - inc air filter and exhaust - not withstanding this - REFLASH or not the bike is apparently running RICH so adding fuel with SERT/TFI/PC any fueler is not whats needed as i said and assuming the bike has been flashed is never good
Silver - go to your dealer that did the cams swap and get them to tell you what map is in the ECM if its stock or Stage 1, 2nd ask them to remove the historic codes from ECM, 3rd you may need to go on the DYNO to see where the bike is RICH if its truely rich just a staged run will tell you this info , staged run were the operator revs the bike from idle, and increments up in 500 rpms (the DYNO should have a spark read Tach) to the max rev limit as well as performing a WOT run to make sure the accel pump is working as it should
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