Harley Davidson Forums

mc2 · Oct 13th, 2012, 08:12 AM

After 39,940 miles my 08 Fat Boy is letting me down for the first time, and after all I've put it through that's not bad. At least it didn't happen in a remote jungle!

I've called a shop in the states, but they are now closed till Tue, as well as the Singapore HD till Monday, and I wonder!

I turned the switch to start, and when I hit the starter button - click.
All contacts for battery and inside the switch (those three sliders with the springs) are clean, and fuses all ok.

Battery is at 12.8 v, and if I turn ign. sw. to Accessory there are 12v there, but when I turn the switch to ignition it all drops to 0.3: at the battery, and at the tangs on the ign. sw. Removed the PC V to check with OEM, but nothing different.

Both shops gave a confirmation that the ignition sw. is probably the culprit. Although there shows continuity on the ign. side of the switch. By appearance the ign. tang (all tangs actually) just run solid through the plastic housing for shared contact by the sliders inside. Puzzling!

I'm wondering if I can test it by making a direct contact from the center power tang crossed to the ign. tang? Without concern for blowing fuses or worse!
I'm isolated out in the rice paddys and just want to be careful.
Thanks.

fin_676 · Oct 13th, 2012, 08:28 AM

I am not an expert on electrical systems but if the battery voltage across the terminals drops considerably when you press the start button then the battery is faulty and would need to be replaced

Brian

eleft36 · Oct 13th, 2012, 08:42 AM

IMO if it were the switch you would not even get a click.

Look at the battery and all the connections to and including all in the fuse panel.

Al

lorne · Oct 13th, 2012, 09:10 AM

do you have any way of load testing the battery? a simple light bulb should work as a load and see how much the voltage drops once it is connected across + and-.

BUBBIE · Oct 13th, 2012, 11:26 AM

CAREFULLY jump start it...IF hooking another small good battery starts it Right up...... BATTERY..

That would be My bet on the problem as you said the voltage drops off to Nothing when you tried starting and checked battery......

signed....BUBBIE

Hoople · Oct 13th, 2012, 12:05 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by mc2 View Post

Battery is at 12.8 v, and if I turn ign. sw. to Accessory there are 12v there,

"there" as in at the switch?
Where is the important point. You never said exactly where.

Your meter should be directly at the battery posts.

Jack Klarich · Oct 13th, 2012, 12:12 PM

Check the connection at the starter under the rubber boot, you are in a high humidity are you may have a loose or badly corroded connection, check the ground near the starter also, feel the cables are they heating up?

mc2 · Oct 13th, 2012, 10:42 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by Hoople View Post

"there" as in at the switch?
Where is the important point. You never said exactly where.

Your meter should be directly at the battery posts.

I do appreciate all the responses. Thanks.
Ok, went through the same checks again this morning.
The three tangs off the bottom of the Ign Sw: Acc., Power, Ign.
(I have had readings of 12.8 volts directly off the battery).

With switch off: 10+ volts to Power tang
Switch at Acc: 10+ volts to Power and Acc tangs
Switch to Ign:
1. At times it will go normal (lighting up insturments and headlight) with 10+ volts, but as soon as I hit the start button, it clicks and everything drops to 0.4 v
2. Most times when turning switch to Ign the insturment (mileage indicator) will flash on briefly, then all is at 0.4 v. (power, acc, ign tangs and battery)

No jumper cables & have not found substitute, but then would need to find and hand carry a battery back to the bike. Very difficult to get a local to remove his battery!
Nor found something for a load test yet.
I have not been able to remove the ground from the starter (the green wire on the forward side). It's a tough location to reach and appears to need a compression to release it, requiring a specail tool as is, or removing the oil tank!

Checked continuity again from the tangs to the inside of the switch where the sliders make contact and find continuity on all three.
But in the mystery of electrics, or unknown design, the contact may be just enough for the continuity and that is all.
When the ign switch is turned on there is a heavy draw off the battery to a direct ground (??)

The switch does seem suspect, and the shops say they have replaced them because they have failed from excessive vibration (and I've certianly gone through some severe vibrations). But that leads me to assume that between the tang on the outside of the switch and the slider contact on the inside, the connection is not a solid one piece unit within the the plastic mold for the switch.
And all the other evidence is confusing to me!

The Tech at the Singapore shop was going to study this and I will talk with him on Monday, and couldn't just sit the weekend without throwing this into the forum.
I'm sure it's something very simple, but as often, it's difficult to reach that moment of clarity!

Thanks again for the responses and leads.

lorne · Oct 13th, 2012, 10:55 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by mc2 View Post

I do appreciate all the responses. Thanks.
Ok, went through the same checks again this morning.
The three tangs off the bottom of the Ign Sw: Acc., Power, Ign.
(I have had readings of 12.8 volts directly off the battery).

With switch off: 10+ volts to Power tang
Switch at Acc: 10+ volts to Power and Acc tangs
Switch to Ign:
1. At times it will go normal (lighting up insturments and headlight) with 10+ volts, but as soon as I hit the start button, it clicks and everything drops to 0.4 v
2. Most times when turning switch to Ign the insturment (mileage indicator) will flash on briefly, then all is at 0.4 v. (power, acc, ign tangs and battery)

No jumper cables & have not found substitute, but then would need to find and hand carry a battery back to the bike. Very difficult to get a local to remove his battery!
Nor found something for a load test yet.
I have not been able to remove the ground from the starter (the green wire on the forward side). It's a tough location to reach and appears to need a compression to release it, requiring a specail tool as is, or removing the oil tank!

Checked continuity again from the tangs to the inside of the switch where the sliders make contact and find continuity on all three.
But in the mystery of electrics, or unknown design, the contact may be just enough for the continuity and that is all.
When the ign switch is turned on there is a heavy draw off the battery to a direct ground (??)

The switch does seem suspect, and the shops say they have replaced them because they have failed from excessive vibration (and I've certianly gone through some severe vibrations). But that leads me to assume that between the tang on the outside of the switch and the slider contact on the inside, the connection is not a solid one piece unit within the the plastic mold for the switch.
And all the other evidence is confusing to me!

The Tech at the Singapore shop was going to study this and I will talk with him on Monday, and couldn't just sit the weekend without throwing this into the forum.
I'm sure it's something very simple, but as often, it's difficult to reach that moment of clarity!

Thanks again for the responses and leads.

i am guessing that you have a VOM to check the voltage? or do you have a digital dash? as far as a load test a light bulb from any lamp will work (not the best but will give and idea in a pinch) the higher the wattage the better.

sounds like to live somewhere where i would like to..

Bodeen · Oct 14th, 2012, 08:12 AM

As Hoople suggested. Try all the measurements you have done except take the measurements at the battery posts. If you are dropping to 10V with the switch on and your headlights and all are working correctly, you do not have enough voltage to get the starter to do much at all.

Oct 13th, 2012, 08:28 AM	#2
fin_676 Moderators Ride: 1992 Softail Custom Join Date: Dec 21st, 2008 Location: Banffshire,Scotland Posts: 3,997 My Mood:	Re: Ignition Switch Failure?? I am not an expert on electrical systems but if the battery voltage across the terminals drops considerably when you press the start button then the battery is faulty and would need to be replaced Brian __________________ I try to put my brain in gear before my hands go on the keyboard Self Help Information and Tips - Harley Davidson Community

Oct 13th, 2012, 08:42 AM	#3
eleft36 Community Star Ride: 2007 Softail FXSTC Join Date: Aug 25th, 2008 Location: Fairfield, CT. Posts: 439 My Mood:	Re: Ignition Switch Failure?? IMO if it were the switch you would not even get a click. Look at the battery and all the connections to and including all in the fuse panel. Al __________________ 2010 CVO 110" Mufflers Stock A/C Stock Heads Andrews 26 Cams SE 103" Kit Mustang Wide Touring Seat Stock Bars H.D. Oil Cooler 1994 Fat Boy Bags H-D Windshield Thunder Max A/T SCRC member chapter 524 Set up to ride comfortably

Oct 13th, 2012, 09:10 AM	#4
lorne Community Guru Ride: 05 Road King Police Join Date: Apr 10th, 2010 Location: Richmond Tx/Margarita Island Posts: 1,909 My Mood:	Re: Ignition Switch Failure?? do you have any way of load testing the battery? a simple light bulb should work as a load and see how much the voltage drops once it is connected across + and-. __________________ friends don't let friends ride stock

Oct 13th, 2012, 11:26 AM	#5
BUBBIE Contributor$ Ride: FLHR 09 Join Date: Oct 15th, 2008 Location: AZ, S.East corner/Western WA. Posts: 3,988 My Mood:	Re: Ignition Switch Failure?? CAREFULLY jump start it...IF hooking another small good battery starts it Right up...... BATTERY.. That would be My bet on the problem as you said the voltage drops off to Nothing when you tried starting and checked battery...... signed....BUBBIE __________________ ************************* Quite Often I am Right so Forgive me when I'm WRONG!!!.......

Oct 13th, 2012, 12:05 PM	#6
Hoople Contributor$ Ride: 2009 Dyna Low Join Date: Aug 16th, 2009 Posts: 7,002	Re: Ignition Switch Failure?? Quote: Originally Posted by mc2 View Post Battery is at 12.8 v, and if I turn ign. sw. to Accessory there are 12v there, "there" as in at the switch? Where is the important point. You never said exactly where. Your meter should be directly at the battery posts. __________________ When all else fails, hit the turbo entabulator button. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLDgQg6bq7o

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Oct 13th, 2012, 12:12 PM	#7
Jack Klarich Contributor$ Ride: 2007 Streetbob Join Date: Sep 25th, 2009 Location: Jacksonville, Florida Posts: 13,620 My Mood:	Re: Ignition Switch Failure?? Check the connection at the starter under the rubber boot, you are in a high humidity are you may have a loose or badly corroded connection, check the ground near the starter also, feel the cables are they heating up? __________________ CAPITAL JACK( Nuff Said, We're Burnin Daylight, Let's Ride)

Oct 13th, 2012, 10:42 PM	#8
mc2 Contributor$ Ride: 2008 Fat Boy Anniversary Model Join Date: Jun 24th, 2009 Location: Mpls, MN Posts: 168	Re: Ignition Switch Failure?? Quote: Originally Posted by Hoople View Post "there" as in at the switch? Where is the important point. You never said exactly where. Your meter should be directly at the battery posts. I do appreciate all the responses. Thanks. Ok, went through the same checks again this morning. The three tangs off the bottom of the Ign Sw: Acc., Power, Ign. (I have had readings of 12.8 volts directly off the battery). With switch off: 10+ volts to Power tang Switch at Acc: 10+ volts to Power and Acc tangs Switch to Ign: 1. At times it will go normal (lighting up insturments and headlight) with 10+ volts, but as soon as I hit the start button, it clicks and everything drops to 0.4 v 2. Most times when turning switch to Ign the insturment (mileage indicator) will flash on briefly, then all is at 0.4 v. (power, acc, ign tangs and battery) No jumper cables & have not found substitute, but then would need to find and hand carry a battery back to the bike. Very difficult to get a local to remove his battery! Nor found something for a load test yet. I have not been able to remove the ground from the starter (the green wire on the forward side). It's a tough location to reach and appears to need a compression to release it, requiring a specail tool as is, or removing the oil tank! Checked continuity again from the tangs to the inside of the switch where the sliders make contact and find continuity on all three. But in the mystery of electrics, or unknown design, the contact may be just enough for the continuity and that is all. When the ign switch is turned on there is a heavy draw off the battery to a direct ground (??) The switch does seem suspect, and the shops say they have replaced them because they have failed from excessive vibration (and I've certianly gone through some severe vibrations). But that leads me to assume that between the tang on the outside of the switch and the slider contact on the inside, the connection is not a solid one piece unit within the the plastic mold for the switch. And all the other evidence is confusing to me! The Tech at the Singapore shop was going to study this and I will talk with him on Monday, and couldn't just sit the weekend without throwing this into the forum. I'm sure it's something very simple, but as often, it's difficult to reach that moment of clarity! Thanks again for the responses and leads. Last edited by mc2; Oct 13th, 2012 at 10:45 PM. Reason: Clarity

Oct 13th, 2012, 10:55 PM	#9
lorne Community Guru Ride: 05 Road King Police Join Date: Apr 10th, 2010 Location: Richmond Tx/Margarita Island Posts: 1,909 My Mood:	Re: Ignition Switch Failure?? Quote: Originally Posted by mc2 View Post I do appreciate all the responses. Thanks. Ok, went through the same checks again this morning. The three tangs off the bottom of the Ign Sw: Acc., Power, Ign. (I have had readings of 12.8 volts directly off the battery). With switch off: 10+ volts to Power tang Switch at Acc: 10+ volts to Power and Acc tangs Switch to Ign: 1. At times it will go normal (lighting up insturments and headlight) with 10+ volts, but as soon as I hit the start button, it clicks and everything drops to 0.4 v 2. Most times when turning switch to Ign the insturment (mileage indicator) will flash on briefly, then all is at 0.4 v. (power, acc, ign tangs and battery) No jumper cables & have not found substitute, but then would need to find and hand carry a battery back to the bike. Very difficult to get a local to remove his battery! Nor found something for a load test yet. I have not been able to remove the ground from the starter (the green wire on the forward side). It's a tough location to reach and appears to need a compression to release it, requiring a specail tool as is, or removing the oil tank! Checked continuity again from the tangs to the inside of the switch where the sliders make contact and find continuity on all three. But in the mystery of electrics, or unknown design, the contact may be just enough for the continuity and that is all. When the ign switch is turned on there is a heavy draw off the battery to a direct ground (??) The switch does seem suspect, and the shops say they have replaced them because they have failed from excessive vibration (and I've certianly gone through some severe vibrations). But that leads me to assume that between the tang on the outside of the switch and the slider contact on the inside, the connection is not a solid one piece unit within the the plastic mold for the switch. And all the other evidence is confusing to me! The Tech at the Singapore shop was going to study this and I will talk with him on Monday, and couldn't just sit the weekend without throwing this into the forum. I'm sure it's something very simple, but as often, it's difficult to reach that moment of clarity! Thanks again for the responses and leads. i am guessing that you have a VOM to check the voltage? or do you have a digital dash? as far as a load test a light bulb from any lamp will work (not the best but will give and idea in a pinch) the higher the wattage the better. sounds like to live somewhere where i would like to.. __________________ friends don't let friends ride stock

Oct 14th, 2012, 08:12 AM	#10
Bodeen Moderators Ride: 2003 Road King Join Date: Aug 12th, 2009 Location: Central Florida Posts: 2,701 My Mood:	Re: Ignition Switch Failure?? As Hoople suggested. Try all the measurements you have done except take the measurements at the battery posts. If you are dropping to 10V with the switch on and your headlights and all are working correctly, you do not have enough voltage to get the starter to do much at all. __________________ Bodeen Please stop by the "self help section" for maintenance tips, diagnostic codes and much more. click me!>>Self Help Information and Tips<< click me!

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