Hey Joe (if you're reading, and I hope you are... good open debate is never personal to me... just a trading of thoughts), I wouldn't say I'm sympathetic to the Clintons. Seriously. I would also say though that I felt things were better in general for the country when Bill was in office. Specifically economically (a surplus budget finally), and in general "world view" of our country. Yes, I was referring to Obama and Clinton as the "either"... because you mentioned their names as the two that would probably bring a socialist slant to their administrations (if they were to win).
As for the fanatic Islamists, I agree they are a problem. I also think they've been fighting amongst themselves for thousands of years, and we put our nose's into a hornet's nest that we didn't have to. To try to bring democracy to them, is like trying to force a caveman to use an Ipod. They have no concept of what it is, and it's a folly to try to force it on them. (IMO) The American public was sold a package of lies and misdirected platitudes about what's going on over there, and those were used to invade a country that had nothing to do with the original offense (9/11, chase down Bin Laden till he's caught, the world supported us on that point, but to redirect the main focus to a country that had shaky ties at best?). No connections were made, no proof shown. What's worse (IMO again) is that the administration in power right now, tried to make it sound as if they, and they alone, kept this country safe from invasion and threats. Who kept us safe between Pearl Harbor and 9/11? (as far as horrendous attacks on these shores). If they're doing such a wonderful job, why is it that the vaunted color code system about our safety has never once gone down below orange? You can't keep the public at that level of heightened "fear" forever! Aware yes, vigilant yes... but it's like the boy who cried wolf, eventually, folks stop listening. Not out of apathy, but out of exhaustion.
I just feel that whoever is in office, should try to level with the nation (with honesty, but you're right, that's been eroding for years, i.e. Kennedy and the Bay of Pigs, Johnson's profiteering with Viet Nam, Nixon and Watergate) instead of telling us what we "want to hear". Even if the message is "we're in it deep, and it's going to take awhile for us to dig out... but here's how we can start..." I'd prefer that over trying to continuously scare us into "stay the course".
My biggest problem is.... I have YET to see a single candidate, that I feel can do this, WOULD do this, or even have that much "change" planned in their promises. They chant on and on about change, but they haven't really said how. Give us a plan, not another slogan.
Nothing personal here Joe. Just a difference in viewpoints. That's never a bad thing... it's what makes democracy work. If we all had the same ideas, and feelings... THEN we'd be a socialist society!